CV16-SS project

[Rotek]

" Was it to "bond" the floor to it with adhesive?  "


LOL .. 3M 5200 will bond teflon to butter ..

I'm sorry if I used the word "bond" incorrectly 
The floor was laid down onto the thickened resin, same as the stringer.
Does that count as "bonded"?

[Rotek]

Having torn out several rotten stringers/floors in the past I've noticed the screws through the floor into the stringers seem to form a path for water to enter and rot the stringer/floor.   Was thinking just bond that stringer to the floor with adhesive(5200) without screws?   If so I'd guess the grey material on the stringer would be left intact.    What product is that grey "paint" you used, I really like the look, wondering if the product is available in USA?   

BTW Gregg, I'm still laughing at the Teflon to butter comments.

I understand what you are saying. Yeah, we did put a couple of screws through the floor into the stringer. I'm not the happiest about that, but I wanted to be 100% sure the floor is pressed firmly against the stringer while the resin was curing.
The gray material is what we locally call "liquid plastic" because it feels like plastic when dry. Here is the photo of the product.
It is a German made and we can get it locally. Here's the link to the product page:

https://www.duefa.de/produkte/bodenbeschichtungen/kunststoff-fluessig

I stupidly painted the stringer top surface with it and then realized that it might be a problem for the thickened resin to adhere to it. So the stringer top was sanded to remove the paint before applying the thickened resin.

[Rotek]

One more thing, most folks have used a closed cell foam in the bilge not only as flotation but also as a means to keep the wood dry.   The original Glastron flotation foam was open cell, have torn out lots of that that held water and contributed to rot.

I used Sika Boom Low expansion one component foam. Honestly I'm not sure if it is a closed cell or not. Here's the photo of the product.

When I was removing the flotation boxes the foam was dry. But when we have torn out the floor I have found some preformed/precut foam pieces which were soaking wet. I'm not sure if they have dried out even now after a couple of weeks laying around the workshop. I'll check tomorrow to see if those foam pieces are still wet. I decided I will not put any form of flotation under the floor as it will only hold the potential water.

[Hyperacme]

I think most Glastron's had the 2 x 4 shaped foam logs in hull.
Mine were dry.
Foam in side boxes were also dry.
But left side of that gap between transom wood and hull fiberglass had water get in and rot left side of transom.

[Rotek]

Yes, that is exactly what I have found under the floor.

[Rotek]

Here's the update after a few weeks.
All the work on the inside of the hull is done for now, new stringer, new transom, new floor. All glassed over and sanded to the nice smooth finish.
Today we have turned over the hull so the work on the bottom can start. It's been quite an interesting task turning it over, but we have managed to do it without doing any damage to the hull. I'm super proud of that  .

[Rotek]

First day of bottom sanding...

[Rotek]

I have a question about the metal flake.
How much do I need for the whole boat? I mean, not the whole boat but the parts that need to go in metal flake.

Also, how much of the flake should I mix into the clear?
Which nozzle size is best to use when spraying?

Thanks a lot for any help

[Hyperacme]

Jeff did a Timmi a few years ago and should have some basic info ..

http://forum.cgoamn.com/index.php?topic=8136.0

[Plugcheck]

If you're using gelcoat, you can use flake in the clear or use a flake gun.   If using automotive clear, use a flake gun.    I learned the hard way that auto clear needs a small tip, like a 1. 2 or 1.3, which my flake didnt pass through, so I used a 2.0 tip.   Another issue is auto clear is meant to flow out, flake lays down as well.  The boat looks great, but only at certain angles.    A flake gun will stick the flake at all different angles.  Then lay down several more coats to seal it all up.  I used about 10 ounces of flake.  Joe used gel on a 1900 with flake that came out nicely.   

[thedeuceman]

these are the nots i found from when i did the 1900

notes from the workshop some of us attended at shipwerck boat works (they do restorations with gel)
2.5 tip for flake
shoot darker flake over black (makes it pop)
shoot all flake and clear at one time (dont let it fully cure between any coats)
mix flake aprox 40% for darker colors
apply flake in thinner coats to avoid pushing it (looks like the flake has orange peel inside the clear)
5 to 6 coats of clear

my notes, i will add that i intend to use more flake when i do the CV16V8 it will be purple flake over black

Apr 26, put red gel / flake on the transom, and under the swim platform while it was up in the air (it may have been better to just do it with the rest)
May 14, after taping off the part that will be flake i shot 2 coats of red gel 2 coats to be (20% duratec and 2% MEKP). other than hitting a few rough spots i did not sand it (i think i should have taken the orange peel out).
---------
flake, i shot this with an inexpensive HVLP gun with a 2.5 tip
May 17, I mixed 8 batches each 10 oz clear gel, 2 oz duratec additive, and 3 tablespoons + 2 teaspoons of each .015 and .025 square flake, and 7CC MEKP.
Used 5 the first time around, went back over it again with just under 3.
May 22, one more coat of flake as above, then 3 coats of clear, each batch (10 oz clear gel, 2 oz duratec additive, and 7CC MEKP). i shot just over a gal and the clear was shot with a 2.3 tip.
Jun 7, sanded with 220, but could not sand orange peel out without hitting flake (there are way too many silver specs, guess i will have to live with that)
Jul 11, shot 8 batches of clear on (2 coats) using the 2.5 tip.
Jul 14, shot 1 more coat of clear mixed as above, then 1 coat with gel/duratec mixed at 50/50 with wax
that is the end of shooting clear.

i think Jeff used more flake that this as well, im sure he will comment.

[Rotek]

I'm am not doing it with the gel but with the PU based acrylic paint.

OK, so how much flakes should I buy in total?

I'm not sure if I understood correctly here, is it 5 tablespoons (3 tablespoons .015 and 2 tablespoons .025) of flake into 10 oz of clear? Is that correct? Should I also use 2.5 tip for the acrylic, same as for the gel?

I know these questions are probably annoying already, but I don't want to mess up even before I start spraying

Thanks

[carlsoncvx18]

Your use it the .025 flake that is huge. I do some research on the tip size. Most of the flake used was .015 or .008. In size.  If your using a base with clear I would apply a coat of clear in a 3?x3? area and then spray the flake on with a flake gun.  Complete the whole area to be flaked that way.  Then come back with how ever many coats of clear it takes to bury it.  Best to have 2 people.

[Rotek]

Your use it the .025 flake that is huge. I do some research on the tip size. Most of the flake used was .015 or .008. In size.  If your using a base with clear I would apply a coat of clear in a 3?x3? area and then spray the flake on with a flake gun.  Complete the whole area to be flaked that way.  Then come back with how ever many coats of clear it takes to bury it.  Best to have 2 people.

So you're saying that original was done with a mix of .008 and .015 size?

How much should I get in total?

Thanks

[thedeuceman]

sorry i missed the part about using paint, disregard all them words i posted.
Shawn did his 23 with automotive paint/clear he used a flake gun to put the flake on wet clear like Mike mentioned.
link to the thread
http://forum.cgoamn.com/index.php?topic=3740.msg101992#msg101992
he had over a pound of flake, did not say how much he used, but i think a 1 pound would do a cv16 that way
he was using .015 hex from roth,
he did comment that he liked the look of his 18 better, he mixed the same flake with the clear

[Plugcheck]

Using a flake gun will use more flake than incorporating it directly into the clear, some will just bounce off(overspray).   When it comes time to paint the Timi, I want to use an intercoat clear, just a base coat without pigment to lay the flake on.   Then I can lay the clear on with the standard 1.2mm tip and let the clear flow out as it was designed to do.     

[carlsoncvx18]

Hear is .015 square flake done with gel coat.  I took a loop and and a dial micrometer and measured it was a 1984 intimidator.  It has a black base and the orange is strictly flake.

[Plugcheck]

Now you're just showing off Jeff-Ha!   That Timi is even more gorgeous in person, a beautiful resto.    I shot the picture of it in the calendar.   

[carlsoncvx18]

Just trying to show what .015 flake is like.   .025 cannot remember but I think it is almost twice the size of .015.

Not sure how orignal he wants to keep it.  But there is a difference in the octagon and square flake in terms of look.

[Plugcheck]

I used hex .015 flake, but it laid down flat as the clear flowed out.  Never used gelcoat, but may consider it see how Jeff and Joes gelcoat projects have turned out