Author Topic: cavitation height  (Read 12891 times)

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Offline terry

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cavitation height
« on: August 25, 2014, 07:29:02 PM »
Anyone play with cavitation height on there outboard.I heard even with the bottom of the pad.
terry/sandee - 1978 cvx 16 deluxe-modified 2000 100hp johnson.78 cvx16-140 mercury.87 stratos vt rocket 225 Yamaha v-max.

Offline David CVX-16

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Re: cavitation height
« Reply #1 on: August 25, 2014, 08:11:57 PM »
The cavatation plate on my CVX-16 is even with the bottom of the hull, but I heard that 1 1/2 inches to 2 inches is not a problem in maintaining enough water pressure for cooling the outboard. 
« Last Edit: August 26, 2014, 07:21:30 AM by David CVX-16 »
David
87' CVX-16, 85' 115 HP Johnson, 58.8 MPH GPS w/ 23" SRX Prop

Offline Hyperacme

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Re: cavitation height
« Reply #2 on: August 25, 2014, 11:35:56 PM »
I have ...
Believe it's 1 inch above bottom.
Still get good water pressure.
Gained at least one mph, maybe two.

Wish I had a pad !







« Last Edit: August 25, 2014, 11:42:36 PM by Hyperacme »

Offline bellj

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Re: cavitation height
« Reply #3 on: August 26, 2014, 01:47:25 PM »
If you would happen to want to play more radically with the cavitation height, probably the recommended safest way (especially when you might be trimming up and not watching the water pressure as much or if using a hydraulic jackplate) is with a low-water type of lower unit. Mine came with a CLE (Crescent leading edge), although I think the Sport master and Torque Master units offer low water pickups too...BUT, low water pickups (and different nose-cone & skeg shapes) present their own unique challenges too - especially in that they are easier to get sand in the pump near shore and of course sand bars. I was emphatically warned by the previous owner to be very careful - and I think I have been - but when I took the pump apart just before the event because it refused to pump on the flusher (takes a special nosecone flusher too since the intakes are on the bottom instead of the sides) I noticed that there was some sand in the passageways regardless of being careful. I don't think that it was enough to wreck the pump (but sure can't help longevity either) - and I suspect there's a small amount that goes through no matter how careful you are. High or low (motor height and/or water pickup), they both have unique challenges.   :)

Usually raising beyond that 1 to 2 inch range isn't worth the extra expense of what you need to do it right vs. what you gain in mph for most of us. There's all kinds of (usually expensive) balancing factors that come into play when you experiment in that 65+ range and especially if trying for that magical 85+ "barrier". Chine walk (pad?), cavitation, torque effects of a usually longer slightly different shape but higher lower unit, etc., etc.,...   (not that you were intending to go that far - just things to consider if you suddenly "got the bug")   ;)

(semi-related side-note: regardless whether you have high or low pickup, my face almost goes sickly green when I've seen certain "idiots" (for lack of a better description IMHO) next to me with their pontoon boat revved up in reverse to "un-beach" so they don't have to get out and push when taking off - the surrounding water turns brown with sand for quite some time after that - you just know if you start up, or were traveling past, even out a ways, that there's some sand (or worse) floating that will get sucked in (imagine what it's doing to their water pump!)!! Maybe nobody does that outside of this (sometimes silly) area?)   ;)
Jim, Patti, & Samantha
'69 Pipestone Princess O/B, '57 Evinrude Lark 35
'77 Glastron GT-150 O/B, '78 Merc 700, "The Puddle Jumper"
'77 Switzer GL-20 O/B, '77 Merc 1750
'86 Glastron CVX-20 O/B, '86 Merc 200, "The WHIZZard of Odds"

Offline V153

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Re: cavitation height
« Reply #4 on: August 26, 2014, 04:04:26 PM »
Here:

I run @ about 2" above. No jack plate, nose cone or LWP. No problem.
'81 C500_given away, bought back_75.1 mph
'81 Baja 15SS_140 Frankenrude_66.7 mph
'70 something SpeedCraft_(Allison 16R Clone)_69.0 mph
'79 CVZ19_given away
'71 V153_54.8 mph_wrecked


WALK TALL AND CARRY A BIG BILGE PUMP

Offline Jerry

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Re: cavitation height
« Reply #5 on: August 26, 2014, 04:49:47 PM »
OK, first if you ever put your arm out the car window at 55MPH you know what drag that is. Multiply that because you're in water, not air. The higher you can get the less drag you have. Race boats with low-water pickups and surface props only have half their prop in the water. I have a short-shaft (15") motor on a 20" transom. This has been a standard set-up for years with Merc Hi Performance guys. My Cav plate is 7" above the bottom of the boat.



I still have full water, even with the prop peeking above the water.



I did this by closing the top water inlet holes, and inlarging the lower 3. Every motor is different. This is a inline 150HP Merc.



I need to get it set up right, but it sounds great.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QZNJSDs2kk0&feature=youtu.be

Have fun.
« Last Edit: August 26, 2014, 05:11:20 PM by Jerry »
'72 Glastron GT160 Sport - Okie-Dokie
'63 Winner - Grandpa's Fisn-Bote
'63 Glasspar SeaFair Sunliner - Mischief Maker

Offline V153

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Re: cavitation height
« Reply #6 on: August 26, 2014, 05:22:13 PM »
My Cav plate is 7" above the bottom of the boat.
Way too high for this application. I think what you're missing Jerry is the Merc HiPo guys didn't run GT 160 hulls. They ran flat bottoms'n hydro's'n tunnel hulls. Big difference from a rounded V.

If'n you wanna go to the grave tryin to make the set-up work that's your business. I say trade out the mid for a 20" OR put the jackplate back on'n lower the motor some.

Respectfully ...

'81 C500_given away, bought back_75.1 mph
'81 Baja 15SS_140 Frankenrude_66.7 mph
'70 something SpeedCraft_(Allison 16R Clone)_69.0 mph
'79 CVZ19_given away
'71 V153_54.8 mph_wrecked


WALK TALL AND CARRY A BIG BILGE PUMP

Offline Retro Performance

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Re: cavitation height
« Reply #7 on: August 26, 2014, 06:28:12 PM »
A guy could use a Bay Pattern extension kit (cheap and easy to change from 15 to 20) to experiment.....then you can switch back and forth in less than an hour. 

Offline FergusonPooleInc

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Re: cavitation height
« Reply #8 on: August 27, 2014, 09:09:23 AM »
Hi Jerry,
Free advice is sometimes worth what you paid, but if you are indeed 7" up, then Doug's advice is likely true to nearly 100%, and I do agree that a Bay Pattern kit would be a good way to go (we have a very nice used later one, with stainless components, if you have an interest).  I would have thought that 4" up should be expected from my experiences, but with a long straight-edge and a ruler (assuming that the outboard is trimmed to place the anti-ventilation plate exactly parallel with the keel), the measurements do not lie.  If the 4" height is rather found, then the extension kit is not the answer, and a highly modified performance propeller may offer some hope with the present set-up.

Best Regards,
Joe
www.fergusonpoolemarine.com
info@fergusonpoolemarine.com

Offline Jerry

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Re: cavitation height
« Reply #9 on: August 27, 2014, 11:38:55 AM »
Thanks Joe. The short shaft motor is 4 1/2" shorter than the long shaft. It's not cavitating, it just isn't doing what I thought it would. I think it's more the fault of the boat design. If I had it to do over I would have built a pad. The guy that built the motor Chris Carson is a former racer and record holder liked it.



Gary MacNouris, maybe the best boat builder in the country and former racer, said I needed a chopper prop to really go fast, but that's like driving on ice. I may have to try one, but I really want a boat I can use, not just go fast.



After spending about $1,500 to make it a short-shaft, I really need to spend some time playing with it, and maybe just living with what I have. If nothing else it looks cool.

'72 Glastron GT160 Sport - Okie-Dokie
'63 Winner - Grandpa's Fisn-Bote
'63 Glasspar SeaFair Sunliner - Mischief Maker

Offline thedeuceman

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Re: cavitation height
« Reply #10 on: August 27, 2014, 12:31:44 PM »
So Terry, where is it set now ?
are you looking for speed ?
with the stock steering on these its hard to get past the first or second hole, im 1 up on the GT-150 and really like the way it runs though i can only tic 50 GPS, we can run down the river WOT in the mid 40's flat/straight/ no torque steer.
i like that hydraulic steering that Gregg has.
Joe
75 GT150 "SeaDeuced"... Its Back !!
92 16CSS "Attitude Adjustment" is for sale
75 CV-16V8, Project
74 CV-16... its Purple !

Offline terry

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Re: cavitation height
« Reply #11 on: August 27, 2014, 08:42:35 PM »
I'll have to get a better picture with motor down.boats a tunnel haul.got a 10 inch jackplate.i would say about 2inches above the pad.dont want to starve the motor dont have low water pickup yet.got to run electronics yet.
« Last Edit: August 27, 2014, 08:57:37 PM by terry »
terry/sandee - 1978 cvx 16 deluxe-modified 2000 100hp johnson.78 cvx16-140 mercury.87 stratos vt rocket 225 Yamaha v-max.

Offline Jerry

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Re: cavitation height
« Reply #12 on: August 27, 2014, 09:30:22 PM »
Why I hate jack plates.
Moving it up 2" and back 6" gives you no gain. Raising it 2" off the transom would help. Unless you want to do a lot of stuff that will do very little, or pull the lower unit and weld intake holes, that would give you the best bang for your buck. Your boat, enjoy it.
'72 Glastron GT160 Sport - Okie-Dokie
'63 Winner - Grandpa's Fisn-Bote
'63 Glasspar SeaFair Sunliner - Mischief Maker

Offline Hyperacme

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Re: cavitation height
« Reply #13 on: August 27, 2014, 11:43:24 PM »
Is it a Strato's VT Rocket ?
Looks like it has a SeaStar steering system.
Looks like a tunnel hull .. I'm trying to find better pictures of your stern.

Offline Hyperacme

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Offline David CVX-16

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Re: cavitation height
« Reply #15 on: August 28, 2014, 07:52:00 AM »
Terry, there is alot of discussion about your boat on the internet. Use your boat's name and model in a search engine to find out other people's experiences with engine height settings.

You have a unique hull style and the traditional rules of engine height may not apply.
David
87' CVX-16, 85' 115 HP Johnson, 58.8 MPH GPS w/ 23" SRX Prop

Offline thedeuceman

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Re: cavitation height
« Reply #16 on: August 28, 2014, 07:58:41 AM »
that's a cool looking boat Terry, sounds like it will be fast as heck when you get the set up tweaked.
keep us posted
Joe
75 GT150 "SeaDeuced"... Its Back !!
92 16CSS "Attitude Adjustment" is for sale
75 CV-16V8, Project
74 CV-16... its Purple !

Offline bellj

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Re: cavitation height
« Reply #17 on: August 28, 2014, 10:32:02 AM »
"Why I hate jack plates. Moving it up 2" and back 6" gives you no gain."

I have no desire to contradict Jerry and personally consider him to have a heck of a lot more experience than I do, and with every specific installation having so many factors to make each one unique, the results can vary so greatly between different hull designs anyway.

But "supposedly" moving an outboard back 6" or more (combined with raising if desired) in some situations is supposed to help get the prop and usually also the water pickup away from the turbulence certain hull designs might create. I've even seen some extenders for I/O lower units designed to do some of that. Luckily, most of our Glastron hulls don't seem to need a lot of "tweaking" for most common uses.   ;)

As I said, I've never personally tried it even though I have a hydraulic jack plate sitting around in case I ever do want to experiment (I've held back because I've always wondered if there isn't a lot of additional transom stress too - but I've also always liked the idea of being able to "fine tune" while underway as well as keeping the low water pick up higher (avoiding sand) near shore).

Just pointing out the common sales pitch supposed advantages (along with shallow running for some fisherman) to jack plates that I've always heard about - obviously everybody's "gain" as to whether it's worth it for their situation may vary (I've always noticed more of them installed on bass boats than our typical style boats).   :)
Jim, Patti, & Samantha
'69 Pipestone Princess O/B, '57 Evinrude Lark 35
'77 Glastron GT-150 O/B, '78 Merc 700, "The Puddle Jumper"
'77 Switzer GL-20 O/B, '77 Merc 1750
'86 Glastron CVX-20 O/B, '86 Merc 200, "The WHIZZard of Odds"

Offline Jason

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Re: cavitation height
« Reply #18 on: August 28, 2014, 12:25:18 PM »
Seems like on most of the new bass boats I see the motor sits about 12" behind the transom. Then the transom is even stepped up from the bottom of the boat.

Here is an example I found.
Jason S.
1974 Glastron Carlson CV16SS 140 I/O
1986 Glastron Carlson CV23 260 I/O

Offline Plugcheck

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Re: cavitation height
« Reply #19 on: August 28, 2014, 01:15:03 PM »
     Ranger death ride?
Michael
1979 CVZ-18 388 CI Vortec Mouse
1980 CVX-16SS 140 Mercruiser
1979 CVX-16 Johnson 175
2002 Bennington 2275CC 90 Mercury
1985 Intimidator project
1989 Lowe 200 Redneck fishin Toon
2001 Godfrey Sweetwater pontoon 115 Rude