Author Topic: trim pump and reservoir  (Read 9436 times)

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Offline Neutron68

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trim pump and reservoir
« on: September 21, 2015, 09:45:32 AM »
I think there is a leak in my trim pump or reservoir.  I've been mopping up milky oil in the bilge are of the boat most of the summer.  Now, the trim pump runs erratically and it can't raise the lower unit any more.  I see air bubbles in the plastic hydraulic lines.

Can I temporarily refill it with hydraulic oil so I can raise the lower unit for trailering?

Mine is an older style pump and reservoir with no obvious fill cap.
see http://www.ebay.com/itm/MERCRUISER-79271A1-TRIM-TILT-PUMP-WITH-RELAY-/321866370718?hash=item4af0bb0e9e&vxp=mtr




1978 Glastron SSV-177, Mercruiser 140

Offline thedeuceman

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Re: trim pump and reservoir
« Reply #1 on: September 21, 2015, 10:06:34 AM »
remove the 2 screws in the pix, put oil in the fill hole till its full.
i believe mercury calls for 30w oil, i used 10w30 in my 1900.
Joe
75 CV16 "Gregg's Boat"
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92 16CSS "Attitude Adjustment" is for sale
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Offline Neutron68

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Re: trim pump and reservoir
« Reply #2 on: September 21, 2015, 10:28:04 AM »
Thanks for the helpful reply!

Is the fill hole threaded so a special threaded attachment can screw into it?
Is it the same thread as the lower unit gear oil filler tube?
1978 Glastron SSV-177, Mercruiser 140

Offline thedeuceman

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Re: trim pump and reservoir
« Reply #3 on: September 21, 2015, 10:41:52 AM »
im not sure if its the same, i used a cap from gear oil and carefully squirted it in, if you take out the vent screw it goes in really easy.
Joe
75 CV16 "Gregg's Boat"
75 GT150 "SeaDeuced"... Its Back !!
92 16CSS "Attitude Adjustment" is for sale
75 CV-16V8, Project
74 CV-16... its Purple !

Offline Plugcheck

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Re: trim pump and reservoir
« Reply #4 on: September 21, 2015, 11:02:45 AM »
      I use the same cap method Joe uses, borrowed from a bottle of 80w90.   I use straight 30 oil in mine, but I'm curious, the milky part generally comes from when that oil gets mixed up with water.   Maybe a leak somewhere letting oil/air in. 
Michael
1979 CVZ-18 388 CI Vortec Mouse
1980 CVX-16SS 140 Mercruiser
1979 CVX-16 Johnson 175
2002 Bennington 2275CC 90 Mercury
1985 Intimidator project
1989 Lowe 200 Redneck fishin Toon
2001 Godfrey Sweetwater pontoon 115 Rude

Offline Neutron68

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Re: trim pump and reservoir
« Reply #5 on: September 21, 2015, 11:29:15 AM »
From what I read in another thread here on the forum, when the trim ram seals get old, they let water into the hydraulic oil.

I'm betting the trim rams need a seal replacement.  But, for now, I need to be able to lift the lower unit so I can trailer the boat to a place where work can be done on the trim rams.

Eric
1978 Glastron SSV-177, Mercruiser 140

Offline Plugcheck

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Re: trim pump and reservoir
« Reply #6 on: September 21, 2015, 12:26:22 PM »
     Would it be possible to disconnect the rams and just strap the lower unit up?   I would agree the rams are a likely culprit, but I have seen the gaskets fail on the hose block.
Michael
1979 CVZ-18 388 CI Vortec Mouse
1980 CVX-16SS 140 Mercruiser
1979 CVX-16 Johnson 175
2002 Bennington 2275CC 90 Mercury
1985 Intimidator project
1989 Lowe 200 Redneck fishin Toon
2001 Godfrey Sweetwater pontoon 115 Rude

Offline Neutron68

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Re: trim pump and reservoir
« Reply #7 on: September 21, 2015, 12:50:07 PM »
     Would it be possible to disconnect the rams and just strap the lower unit up?
Since I want to prevent scraping the lower unit on the boat ramp or the road, this would have to be done before I pull the boat out of the lake, at the boat launch ramp - standing in the lake with wrenches and bungee cords, while other people are waiting for me to get my boat out and go.  I'd prefer to get some oil back into the system, so I can lift the lower unit with the pump.  Then, find and fix all leaks in a relaxed situation.
 
I would agree the rams are a likely culprit, but I have seen the gaskets fail on the hose block.
Evidence is suggesting that there are leaks on both sides of the transom - trim rams, connectors or hoses are letting water into hydraulic oil, and the watery oil is then leaking from connectors, hoses, or the trim pump reservoir down into the bilge area.

Eric
1978 Glastron SSV-177, Mercruiser 140

Offline Rosscoe

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Re: trim pump and reservoir
« Reply #8 on: September 22, 2015, 11:31:13 AM »
I was told at the meet this year that transmission fluid is the best thing to use over oil. It is made to operate under pressure. I have not switched over yet so can not offer any personal experience with it.
Ross
61 Surflite 1964 90HP Johnson project
67 V163 Bayflite Super Sport  1989 100HP Merc
67 V164 Bayflite 120HP
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88 CVX-23 350 Mag

Offline dorelse

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Re: trim pump and reservoir
« Reply #9 on: September 22, 2015, 08:29:31 PM »
Mine has a big label saying SAE-30, so that's what I used.  Just make sure its non-detergent.
1990 Sierra 1700

Offline Neutron68

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Re: trim pump and reservoir
« Reply #10 on: September 23, 2015, 10:20:57 AM »
Mine has a big label saying SAE-30, so that's what I used.  Just make sure its non-detergent.
Is it hard to find non-detergent oil?  Is it prominently labeled as non-detergent?

I bought some straight SAE 30 oil at Fleet Farm.  It doesn't say anything about being non-detergent on the bottles.
see:
http://www.fleetfarm.com/detail/resolute-sae-30-motor-oil-qt-/0000000218006

The description on the website gives me the impression that it has detergent?

"Engine cleanliness - contains modern ingredients which help protect against the formulation of sludge, varnish, and rust in the engine"
1978 Glastron SSV-177, Mercruiser 140

Offline dorelse

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Re: trim pump and reservoir
« Reply #11 on: September 23, 2015, 12:10:47 PM »
It will say non-detergent on the bottle for sure.

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1990 Sierra 1700

Offline Plugcheck

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Re: trim pump and reservoir
« Reply #12 on: September 23, 2015, 12:48:53 PM »
      Always love a spirited conversation about oils, but here is why some things need detergent and some don't.   Keep in mind this is not an all inclusive story about the virtues of oils, but a practical one to use as a guideline.  Detergent in oil helps to keep dirt and foreign particles in suspension so that they may be removed by a screen or filter.  They are also responsible for combating the ill effects of the internal combustion engines byproducts that combine with other elements such as water to form acids and sludge.   This has a beneficial effect of keeping engines with pressurized oiling systems happy and clean.  Now items that deal with higher pressures(Hydraulics) or have high speed rotating assemblies tend to need no detergent oil for one main reason, foaming.   Some hydraulic oils have small amounts or modified detergents but not like motor oil does.   Best advice, use the type and rating of oil that is suggested by the manufacturer and all is well.   As for the trim pumps on my boats, I use 30w non detergent oil for the reasons listed above.  If your not certain what's in it, then its time to replace it to be certain.   Hope this helps, Michael.
Michael
1979 CVZ-18 388 CI Vortec Mouse
1980 CVX-16SS 140 Mercruiser
1979 CVX-16 Johnson 175
2002 Bennington 2275CC 90 Mercury
1985 Intimidator project
1989 Lowe 200 Redneck fishin Toon
2001 Godfrey Sweetwater pontoon 115 Rude

Offline Neutron68

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Re: trim pump and reservoir
« Reply #13 on: September 23, 2015, 09:07:02 PM »
I read this article on non-detergent oils late this morning. 
http://www.cardwelldist.com/Cardwell-Blog/Non-Detergent-Oils-101-Find-Out-If-They-Are-Right-For-Your-Equipment

Then, I found some non-detergent SAE 30 oil at Fleet Farm this afternoon, so I'm ready to add some oil to get my by until I can get the trim leaks fixed!

Thanks for the advice everyone!

Eric
1978 Glastron SSV-177, Mercruiser 140

Offline Neutron68

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Re: trim pump and reservoir
« Reply #14 on: September 27, 2015, 10:54:36 PM »
I found that the threads on the fill hole for the trim pump reservoir are the same as the threads as the lower unit oil fill hole!  I was able to use the lower unit oil fill pump to pump just over 1/2 quart of oil into the trim pump reservoir.

The trim pump works again and the lower unit raises and lowers.  Next step, get the boat out of the lake for the season and get the hydraulic oil leaks fixed.

Eric
1978 Glastron SSV-177, Mercruiser 140

Offline Neutron68

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Re: trim pump and reservoir
« Reply #15 on: October 19, 2015, 01:24:48 PM »
I took the boat to Dan Luke (of DL Marine in Excelsior). 

Dan found the oil leak...loose hose on the lower side of the hydraulic pump.

Dan thought the trim ram seals were fine - no evidence of leaks. 

So, I'm thinking the water is from something else and was hiding in the mid-boat sections until I was running with the bow in an UP position.  Then the water flowed back and mixed with the oil in the bilge, making an oily milkshake.

Eric
« Last Edit: October 19, 2015, 04:13:34 PM by Neutron68 »
1978 Glastron SSV-177, Mercruiser 140

Offline Jason

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Re: trim pump and reservoir
« Reply #16 on: October 19, 2015, 08:16:02 PM »
Glad Dan took care of you!
Jason S.
1974 Glastron Carlson CV16SS 140 I/O
1986 Glastron Carlson CV23 260 I/O