Author Topic: Need trailering advice please!  (Read 3799 times)

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Offline GlastronFan

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Need trailering advice please!
« on: June 16, 2013, 01:31:33 PM »
Hi everyone.  This is my first post, and with all the stuff that’s rattling around in my head, I fear that it will be a lengthy one!  So, I apologize in advance.  And for anyone who sticks around to the end, thanks for your patience!  Okay, here’s the back story.  About three months ago I started getting the itch to get a boat again.  I haven’t owned one for about twenty years.  In looking around the web, I found this fantastic site. Having been a Glastron fan since my days as a much younger man, I’ve become increasingly interested in the discussions and photos you’ve all posted.  So, I’ve now been following these threads for the past couple of months – I feel like an addict!  But, I’ve learned a lot.  And, I’ve got my eye on a classic Glastron 23.  But, here’s my problem.  Five months ago I traded in my SUV for a new passenger car.  In hindsight, a very stupid move!  Don’t get me wrong – I love the car I got.  I’m just concerned that it’s not going to make a suitable tow vehicle.  The manufacturer states that light trailering up to 1,000 lbs. is okay.  However, there are some after-market hitches made (Curt, Hidden Hitch, Draw-Tite) for my specific vehicle that bolt onto the frame and are rated to 2,000 lbs.  I presume that these are safe and work well or they probably wouldn’t offer them.  I don’t know why there’s a difference in the manufacturer’s vehicle tow rating and what other hitch-makers feel is appropriate.  Unfortunately, the Glastron 23 seems to weigh-in somewhere between 3,000 and 3,500 lbs. on the trailer based on the sources I’ve found online.  I’ve learned that this makes it a Class II hitch requirement instead of the lighter-duty Class I hitch.  And, none of these hitch manufacturers make a Class II hitch specifically for my vehicle.   My first question is . . . is this because of structural concerns with my vehicle, or is it due to there not being enough demand for a heavier-duty hitch for my vehicle?  I’m certain that nobody intended my current vehicle to be used for pulling a 23 foot boat.  But, with the right equipment, is it capable of doing so?  It has a six-cylinder engine rated at 270 horsepower, which I believe is more power than the V8 I used twenty years to tow my boat. It has 223 lb/ft of torque.  Of further concern, it is also rear-wheel drive, and sits pretty low to the ground.  Any thoughts on whether this description would allow for towing a 23 foot boat, especially up a boat ramp . . . provided, of course, I can find an appropriate hitch?  I’d hate to get a boat launched, and then not be able to get it back out of the water and up the ramp due to lack of power or traction!  Are there any formulas available to determine this?  Back to the hitch problem.  Can anyone tell me this . . . what is the primary difference between a Class I hitch and a Class II hitch in terms of manufacturing and strength?  Is the Class II hitch made from heavier/stronger steel?  Are the bolts that hold it to the vehicle’s frame larger/stronger?  Or, what else?  And, if this is the case – that everything is just larger/stronger/heavier material, could I consider purchasing the Class I hitch that fits my car, and taking it to a qualified welder to have him use it as a template to create a Class II hitch?  And, if this is feasible, does it then need to be “officially certified” by some person or some agency to be used legally on the highways?  By the way, in case you’re wondering, I can’t just trade the car back in . . . it’s a three year lease! That’s the reason I need a bolt-on hitch that’s properly designed to fit under my specific car . . . at some point I’ll have to take it off when my lease is up, so no permanent welding is going to work.  I really don’t want to wait 2-1/2 more years before I can tow a boat!  The irony here is that, if I have to keep my current car, and buy a tow vehicle specifically for the boat, I won’t be able to afford the boat!  Now, I am perfectly happy with the idea of buying the boat anyway, putting it in storage, and just sitting in it on dry land on my days off until I figure out how to get the tow vehicle situation resolved.  Maybe within a year or so I can find a bargain-priced tow vehicle somewhere.  But, my wife is adamant, saying “If you can’t tow it, you can’t buy it!”  So, any ideas or suggestions that anyone has related to my above questions and predicament would be most welcome.  I may just have to wait a while until I can afford both a boat and a dedicated tow vehicle . . . but, who wants to wait to have fun?  As I said, I’ve got the itch!  By the way, it was all of you, with your photos, videos, and discussions that helped my “itch” progress to a full-fledged rash, so thanks . . . I think. 

Offline dorelse

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Re: Need trailering advice please!
« Reply #1 on: June 16, 2013, 01:44:34 PM »
Ok, first welcome to the club!

Its probably best to know first off, that your new car, does not have a Frame anymore...its unibody, and there in lies your towing problem.  A unibody car especially one rated for a Class I hitch by the manufacturer is that the mounts for the hitch are in no way strong enough to hold and tow the weights your talking about.

Also, keep in mind that that 23' boat's weight is the Dry weight...add fuel, gear and people in the car, and your over the 350/3,500 lbs capacity of the Class II, and over the manufacturers tow rating by 1 1/4 tons.  You're in Class III range and well beyond your car's limits of towing & more importantly Stopping that weight.

Its not the engine that's your problem, its everything else...just my opinion of course, but you've got a nice passenger car designed to carry people & hold bikes on a hitch mounted receiver, maybe tow a jet ski.  That's the limits of its abilities.







1990 Sierra 1700

Offline 75starflight

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Re: Need trailering advice please!
« Reply #2 on: June 16, 2013, 01:51:44 PM »
Ok, first welcome to the club!

Its probably best to know first off, that your new car, does not have a Frame anymore...its unibody, and there in lies your towing problem.  A unibody car especially one rated for a Class I hitch by the manufacturer is that the mounts for the hitch are in no way strong enough to hold and tow the weights your talking about.

Also, keep in mind that that 23' boat's weight is the Dry weight...add fuel, gear and people in the car, and your over the 350/3,500 lbs capacity of the Class II, and over the manufacturers tow rating by 1 1/4 tons.  You're in Class III range and well beyond your car's limits of towing & more importantly Stopping that weight.

Its not the engine that's your problem, its everything else...just my opinion of course, but you've got a nice passenger car designed to carry people & hold bikes on a hitch mounted receiver, maybe tow a jet ski.  That's the limits of its abilities.









I agree with Doran. The engine would pull it, but your stopping ability and the uni-body design is what will get you in trouble. The first time you have to make an emergency stop you would burn up your breaks on the spot with that much weight behind you. your best bet would be to pick up a cheap half ton SUV or Pickup.
1975 v-179 starflite

Offline CVX Fever

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Re: Need trailering advice please!
« Reply #3 on: June 16, 2013, 02:10:40 PM »
I'm thinking that poor transmission wouldn't last all that long either. Today's cars just aren't designed to tow something as heavy as a CV23 like they were years back.
1979 CVX18 "Back in Black"....someday!
1985 CVX18 " Only thing better than 2 CVX18's is 2 girlfriends!

Offline Hyperacme

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Re: Need trailering advice please!
« Reply #4 on: June 16, 2013, 03:31:36 PM »
Welcome to the forum GlastronFan !
Your between a rock and a hard place ...
Maybe a small 15 to 16 foot outboard until your lease is up ..

Offline iowa cv-23

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Re: Need trailering advice please!
« Reply #5 on: June 16, 2013, 03:51:46 PM »
I would guess a CV23 weighs 4000+ w/ trailer, gear, etc. - used to tow ours w/ a Jeep Cherokee & that was about as small of a tow vehicle as you'd want to go....

Good luck & welcome to the forum!

Offline WetRaider

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Re: Need trailering advice please!
« Reply #6 on: June 16, 2013, 04:00:13 PM »
Well said, Doran.

I agree.  It's not a capabilities issue, it's a safety issue.  Imagine what your insurance would NOT cover if something happened and they determined these thresholds were not adhered to by the end user?

If you didn't get wet, you didn't have fun ~ WetRaider

Dan O'Connor
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Offline Jason

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Re: Need trailering advice please!
« Reply #7 on: June 16, 2013, 05:49:02 PM »
A cv23 weighs 2400 dry. Tandem trailer is 1100. Plus 50 gallons of fuel and other junk maybe 500 max. So yea, 4k.

Just by a cheap crappy old truck. You won't loose any money on it.
Jason S.
1974 Glastron Carlson CV16SS 140 I/O
1986 Glastron Carlson CV23 260 I/O

Offline Rosscoe

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Re: Need trailering advice please!
« Reply #8 on: June 16, 2013, 08:41:51 PM »
I agree with all said. The engine in your car has plenty of power and torque but no frame to speak of and the brakes wouldn't be sufficient. Tranny would be another weak link. If I were you, I wouldn't pass up what you want when you see it. You might not get another chance.
For years I have had a "commuter" and a separate tow vehicle. You can always drop the insurance in the winter. My first tow vehicle was a full size rear wheel drive car with a V8. An 83 Caprice to be exact. It did the job and it had an enormous trunk for gear. I moved on to a couple of 4x4 pickups after that. Now I have an older SUV but its not a full size one and couldn't handle a CV23 comfortably.

Welcome by the way! Yes it IS an addiction!
Ross
61 Surflite 1964 90HP Johnson project
67 V163 Bayflite Super Sport  1989 100HP Merc
67 V164 Bayflite 120HP
67 V174 Crestflite Rat Rod
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Offline Jason

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Re: Need trailering advice please!
« Reply #9 on: June 16, 2013, 09:13:31 PM »
The fact that its a unibody car does not have a whole lot to do with it. Most minivan's can tow 3500 lbs and are unibody. RWD is better than FWD as all the added weight on the hitch will keep the rear wheels from spinning. FWD and a big boat usually don't work well on a steeper ramp. If it sits to low you can get a receiver with an offset to raise it up.

Are you thinking of using a Mustang? 270hp V6 and RWD. Or maybe it's an infinity G35... just curious.

Also curious as to which CV23 you have your eye on.
Jason S.
1974 Glastron Carlson CV16SS 140 I/O
1986 Glastron Carlson CV23 260 I/O

Offline PeterJ

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Re: Need trailering advice please!
« Reply #10 on: June 16, 2013, 09:50:40 PM »
Just to throw in my experience.  I've pulled our V-184 with many different vehicles over the years.  Jeep Cherokee, GMC K2500, Chevy Tahoe, Chevy K1500, and lastly, 2000 Ford Explorer with the all aluminum V-6.

I would not surpass the manufacturers weight limits. 

Another thing to consider is where you are going to have to pull.  I go 5 miles usually, 60 at most, in rural MN.  Some folks have to leave large cities.

I love the low range 4x4 option for pulling out of the water.

The Ford Explorer has been my favorite pull vehicle so far.  Ford sprung the thing like a lumber truck (to compensate for roll overs) and the motor is a good balance between power and economy.

Best of luck in your search,

PeterJ

Offline PeterJ

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Re: Need trailering advice please!
« Reply #11 on: June 16, 2013, 09:53:26 PM »
Launching today...

Offline PeterJ

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Re: Need trailering advice please!
« Reply #12 on: June 16, 2013, 09:56:42 PM »
Sorry, a couple more things.

Welcom to the group GlastronFan!

And, we use the Explorer as my wifes "winter vehicle".  When the roads are good, she takes the car.  When the roads are bad, she takes the Ex.

PeterJ

Offline dgmeyer

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Re: Need trailering advice please!
« Reply #13 on: June 16, 2013, 11:05:23 PM »
Too much boat and trailer behind a tow vehicle is NO FUN.  If you have ever been pushed down a hill when the trailer is literally pushing the tow vehicle will scare the heck out of you.  You get to your destination and your nerves are shot.  You want your trailer in top notch condition too.   Losing a hub or tire tread on a trailer can whipsaw your vehicle into the ditch or oncoming traffic.  I always tow a mile and then get out and touch the hubs to see if the hub is hot which indicates frozen bearings.   The older I get the more cautious I am about towing.  Have good equipment.  Give yourself lots of braking distance.   Don't push it because you also probably have the whole family in the car.   I'm amazed when I see the people going down the highway 80 miles per hour whipping in an out of lanes and around tractor trailer trucks.   People will also put a lot of weight in boats when they leave on vacation with items such as coolers, propane tanks, tents, etc. which throws the tongue weight off and then you get fishtailing going on.   Can you tell I'm highly cautious about towing???

Offline GlastronFan

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Re: Need trailering advice please!
« Reply #14 on: June 17, 2013, 03:54:03 PM »
Thanks to all of you who offered comments and opinions.  It seems to be pretty unanimous that my proposed tow vehicle is not going to be up to the job.  Not the response I was hoping for, but pretty much what I expected.  I’ve been in serious denial, hoping for someone to validate my slim hopes!  But, I think I knew deep inside that it wasn’t going to work.   And, I knew this was the place to get good honest feedback, and for that I am grateful.  You all got me thinking in another direction, so I’m exploring the possibility of “selling” my lease, so that I can acquire a more appropriate vehicle.  There are a couple of websites that specialize in putting together buyers and sellers of leases, so maybe that will be an option.  I’ll take a closer look and report back my progress.  Thanks again to all of you for providing a forum for great advice.  I’ll let you know when I finally get on the water!

Regards,

            RB